Pixar’s “Brave” Is Not For Boys
We saw Brave last week (at Pixar; whoa), and though I was often distracted by the fact that I was at Pixar Studios, I was paying enough attention to the movie to notice a few things about it.
1. There are a whole bunch of thematic similarities between Brave and The Little Mermaid.
2. Despite the thematic similarities, Brave does not get on my nerves the way The Little Mermaid does.
3. Brave messes around with the witch-mother element in other Disney films by actually making the witch somewhat innocuous rather than evil, and the mother something other than an absent character, or a malicious step-parent. This is consistent with the more general philosophy in the film of making the women the point of the film: the female characters are not one-dimensional. It is good for your daughters.
4. It is less good for your sons. The male characters in the film are one-dimensional. They are either spritely, voiceless, little boys, menacing figures, buffoons, or obstacles. In Brave, although it is the mother-daughter relationship that is tested by the system of arranged marriages that is in place, it is still a male construct: Men are the problem in Brave.
5. What fathers can take out of this film is something similar to what they can take out of The Little Mermaid: Don’t lose your cool around your teenaged daughter; remain a rational person. But this isn’t much of a message to take away.
6. The message for boys is even more shallow: Don’t…um…buy into a patriarchal system of arranged marriages? Don’t eat the cake? I’m not sure what boys are supposed to take away from this movie, except that women aren’t cardboard cutouts. While that’s not an immaterial message, it’s more subtle than boys will probably recognize. It might lay a foundation for relationships with complicated, genuine, women in the future, and if it does then that is a good thing. But there are no role models for boys in this movie. Men aren’t even presented as classic strong stereotypes: they are presented as lampooned stereotypes. In that respect, it is a step back in the evolution of prince characters Disney has been engaged in for half a century.
Not every movie has to have male role models. Brave might be a worthwhile movie just because of its updated treatment of Disney princesses and witches/mothers, but Disney and Pixar still have a ways to go before they hit the right balance in messaging to boys and girls.
(Editor’s Note: As usual, I’ve overestimated you, Internet. While I admit to a little link-baiting with the title of this post (I’m trying to make $35 in ad revenue so Adsense will cut me a check), the obstinate mis-reading is getting hilarious. The actual criticism of the film is: There are no role models for boys. (One commenter points out that Merida herself is a good role model for boys. Fine. There are no male role models for boys.) That observation either has value to you as a parent, movie watcher, or media critic, or it doesn’t. It’s an observation. It’s a criticism insofar as you have some values about role models in media; it’s not a criticism insofar as you don’t have those values.
Some disagree that there are no male role models, though I think it’s hard to stretch the characters that far. We’ll just disagree about our interpretations of those characters.
Others claim that having no role models for boys is just some kind of turnabout, and why bother point it out at all? Again, the observation either has value to you as a parent, movie watcher, or media critic, or it doesn’t. The observation isn’t false because girls have had it worse.
The most hilarious criticism of this post comes in the form of claiming that I think the film will harm boys in some way, or that they shouldn’t see it, or that this observation all by itself makes the film terrible or overwhelms the other values of the film for parents, movie watchers, and media critics. I don’t know why I let it get to me so much, but it really, really bothers me when someone tries to tell me what I meant by a statement. It bothers me even more when they have no evidence outside of their own filters to back up that claim. This post is not a claim about how meritless the film Brave is, and it’s not an attack on female leads in films or female characters getting attention. The observation is that there are no male role models. A further observation is that what messaging there is for boys, though good (learning to relate to complicated women rather than cutouts) is too subtle. Somehow, this claim about how subtle the messaging is misread as “Burn this movie! It hurts boys!” That’s not in this post at all.
So, if you feel moved to leave a criticism of the post along any of these lines even after reading this postscript, I apologize for what I can only assume is terrible writing on my part. I didn’t think I was being more critical than the actual sentences convey, in my reading of them.)
(Further Editor’s Note: I’ve made $3 off of you so far. Thanks, Internet commenters. I’ll get my check from Adsense in no time.)
(Final Editor’s Note: I’ve closed comments on this post now that they’ve started repeating, and I don’t care to accumulate them while ignoring them, or cut-and-paste my replies. Most people who are just so grrr mad seem to mistake a title for a conclusion, and that’s fine. I wrote the title, so it’s only fair that I get to experience its aftermath. But I’m bored with explaining the minor point the post makes to people who can’t help but see a sweeping, and retrograde, claim in it that isn’t there. It’s inspiring me to deal with people sarcastically instead of sincerely, and as satisfying as sarcasm is sometimes, I don’t actually like it. Feel free to use my Contact Page to send me anything you want to share.)
82 comments
My boys are pretty excited to see it – so I’ll take them in hopes that they appreciate a strong female role model and see girls as strong and brave. :)
I think you may have just cemented the idea I had of taking Goose to see this on Friday… except I’m still wondering if she’s old enough to enjoy it :) Thanks!!
As far as reasons to see it go, that’s not a bad one.
I’m taking my five year old daughter to see it. Is Goose younger than that?
Well… now you know what it’s like for a female to watch 90% of films with female characters.
Indeed. Do you think that was the point of drawing the male characters so badly? Or was that lazy storytelling? Is it the right choice?
Word!
The number of positive/neutral male role models avalanche female role models in kids movies. I think having one movie that *may* portray males negatively does not even come close to tipping the scales. I have a hard enough time finding movies for my daughter where there is an equal number of boy and girl characters. Just think about the Smurfs. Sorry, but I have the tiniest violin playing the saddest song for this post..
I fail to understand how difficult it is to make real characters, as opposed to caricatures, all around? I’m excited about your review and that it’s awesome for girls, but why does one gender always have to lose out in these flicks?
Yes, yes, of course. Criticizing the film for lacking male role models is a criticism of limited worth. It’s still a criticism.
Yeah. I’d like to think that the choice was some kind of deliberate, balancing-the-scales thing. But it just looks like lazy writing. There’s no merit in the choice.
You’d think they have the technology to do this even if they can’t figure out how to do it the traditional way. Give everyone a pair of 3D glasses where one eye sees the typical boy movie, and one eye sees the girl-power movie. Bam. Instant gender equity. I’m definitely still seeing this with my daughter though.
It’s fine, even for boys. It would take a lot more than these caricatures to have a negative effect on boys.
Pitchforks! Torches! S’mores! You make a good point about the buffoonery of the men in the film, but it didn’t bother me or my boys, it was all in good fun. We loved it.
Dude, the theater at Pixar is awesome, right? Did they do the thing with the night sky lights?
They did! And when the shooting stars flew across the sky the crowd gasped. Twice. It was kind of hilarious.
As for the buffoonery not *bothering* you or the boys: Undoubtedly. It’s a little like a king not being bothered when the fool makes fun of him. Why would he even care? The fool has no power. Similarly, I doubt boys will * feel* badly about themselves because of this; they have too much other cultural support for privilege to feel hurt or put-upon. That’s not the point of this post. This is just a disclaimer.
I have a daughter and a son. Is it really too much to ask to have a movie that gives BOTH of them good role models? Why does it have to be either/or?
Why do you feel the need to take her to this movie?
I think that there are plenty of tv shows and movies that portray men (especially Fathers) as buffoons and their wives as the all-knowing but unappreciated masters of everything familial. Homer Simpson jumps right to the front of the line…
Hmmm. I have to disagree. My boys loved it. I thought the father, while kind of blundering, was really loving and probably one of the more positive parents we’ve seen in a “princess” film. But I think that having boys see a strong, assertive and independent girl in a movie is a really good thing!
Vengeful, violent, clowns are not great role models for boys, even if they are also loving. I agree that Merida is a good character for boys to see.
”
The male characters in the film are one-dimensional. They are either spritely, voiceless, little boys, menacing figures, buffoons, or obstacles. ”
Welcome to watching movies from a female perspective. Virtually every kids’ movie, outside the Disney princess realm, portrays girls and women in exactly this light…if there are girls at all.
While I think that it’s sad they couldn’t find a better way to make strong female characters without making the men look silly, I honestly find the criticism that it’s “not good for boys” is pretty weak sauce. You know what’s not good for boys? Consuming media where 90% of the time, there are no notable girls or women.
So, it’s not worth pointing out lazy film-making if a film has other good qualities? I’ve seen this reply before, and it’s, to borrow your phrase, pretty weak sauce.
It’s one thing to point out lazy film making. It’s another to argue that said lazy film making is so bad that you’ve actually decided boys shouldn’t see this movie or wouldn’t get anything out of this movie, that lazy film making is more important than all of the other good stuff the movie does.
I wrote a longer response here, wherein I share ALL of my feelings on why your argument is a bad one: http://whenrobotsreproduce.tumblr.com/post/25515789255/pixars-brave-is-not-for-boys. I hope you read it.
“’m not sure what boys are supposed to take away from this movie, except that women aren’t cardboard cutouts.”
Boys need to hear/see this, early and often.
I’ve never said boys shouldn’t see it, or that they wouldn’t get anything out of it. Your problem is with a position you’ve invented for me.
Nor do I ever say that this concern is the only one that matters, or that it outweighs everything else. Again, you’re misattributing.
Couldn’t Merida be a role model for boys? Must all role models for boys be male? I have two boys and I’m leaning strongly in favor of taking them to see Brave.
No, you just said that this movie isn’t for boys and you questioned what boys might get out of it.
Sure she can. You win pie for being the first person to say it.
I also listed some things boys might get out of it. Your straw man is getting flimsier every time you come back.
Yeah, boys can never identify with female characters. Also, patriarchal oppression of women is totally over, so we should stop talking about it, just like slavery and racism.
Is there a Hitler reference in here yet? I feel like it may be missing from the conversation.
Snark.
This post is worse than Hitler.
Pixar hasn’t made a movie with a strong female protagonist in 17 years. Toy Story had Woody and Buzz, who taught kids about the importance of friendship. Sully and Mike taught my brother and I that maybe, hey, life isn’t just about bringing home the dough. Finding Nemo taught me that my dad will do ANYTHING for me because he loves me. Remi and Linguini taught me that I can do anything as long as I try. Point is, there are several amazing Pixar movies with dynamic male characters who are excellent role models despite having weak, vapid female supporting roles (take for example, Bo Peep, Barbie). While there are some notable females as well, like Dory and Princess Atta, they aren’t exactly what you would call “role models”. Then Pixar comes and makes Brave, and FINALLY the girls rejoice because we have someone to represent us in the media, and you’re griping because she isn’t a dude? Who ever said that men were better role models for boys?
Also: ‘I’m not sure what boys are supposed to take away from this movie, except that women aren’t cardboard cutouts.’
That’s pretty damn notable, if you ask me.
The update is why I love your posts LMAO!
It’s the history Pixar has of doing male characters well that is part of the issue here: What led to the Brave characters being the way they are? Was it a choice, or was it laziness? I think it was a bad film making choice. This is not a crusade against Merida.
I don’t disagree, even in the post itself, that it’s a good thing for boys to see women as more than cardboard cutouts.
Absence of strong, identifiable role models for half the viewing audience have existed since the dawn of theater. Furthermore,
your post is titled “Pixar’s “Brave” is not for boys”. Before your
reader gets to the first line of your content, you have already told us
that regardless of any positive messages, it means little if the
characters acting them out are not primarily male. If you want to take a
shot at appearing somewhat balanced in your approach, you might want to
edit your title before adding half a mile of footnotes as an afterthought and attacking your readers for pointing out your patronizing
attitude.
Women are constantly encouraged to watch movies with strong male leads – they’re all over the place. Most movies feature a strong and “heroic” male character and girls all over the place watch in rapture. Why is it that a movie with a strong, motivated, and intelligent female role suddenly isn’t good enough for boys to see? It doesn’t matter if there’s no “strong male characters” because if girls were discouraged from watching movies without strong female roles than they wouldn’t be going to the cinema period. It’s a story, a wild and fun adventure story for youth and adults alike – don’t poison it by discouraging a single gender from enjoying it. Seriously. Perhaps the lesson of the film doesn’t have to be confined to gender – maybe it can be more than that. Be brave and follow your heart. Stay strong against people who want to stick you into a role or a stereotype. Boys are allowed to hear that too, last I checked.
Thank you for your advice. And your $.02.
I refer you to the Editor’s Note.
I get it. It’s cute, because you might actually make two cents from their page view. Seriously, you specifically wrote the title to be controversial so that it would get you attention. Now that you’ve got it, I think it’s pretty rich for you to argue that “I’m not sure what boys are supposed to take away from this movie, except that women aren’t cardboard cutouts…
But there are no role models for boys in this movie.” is anything other than dismissive of the good things this movie does for girls because it didn’t put boys front and center, yet again. If you want to argue I’m fighting with a straw man because you technically didn’t say “boys shouldn’t see this”–even if “Brave is not for boys” is basically the same thing–fine. I think that’s pretty facetious, though, all things considered.
The first thing I’m going to point out is that if lots of people have “misunderstood” what you were saying – it’s probably because you communicated badly. Your pretentious and condescending editor’s note doesn’t change anything (and it smells strongly of a desperate attempt to save face).
The title of this article explicitly states that the movie is “not for boys.” You then follow it up by complaining that there are no good male role models “for boys”. If it is so important to have good male role models, why would the lack of them only be important to boys? Why can’t something be “for boys” even if the only role model is female? Can boys gain nothing from a female role model?
Basically, your sexism is showing. This is not obstinate misreading. This is people reading what you wrote and noticing that it’s problematic.
Homer Simpson’s lives a charmed life. The message behind Homer Simpson is that even if you’re a totally screw up, you still get a loving wife and a beautiful house. And if your Marge Simpson – the hardworking and talent woman – you get to live your life married to a slob who can’t take care of himself and periodically mocks your hobbies and/or jobs. (Seriously, if you think about all the times Homer is disrespectful towards Marge is astonishing.)
Then why phrase your comments the way you did? You could have complained that the father (and other male characters) were very shallow characters, but you didn’t. Instead, you phrased your comments in a sexist manner by implying that only having a female role model made the move unsuitable for boys. (What else is “not for boys” supposed to mean, if not that?)
You give me too much credit sweetie. I use ad blockers. But you’re welcome for the advice.
If you’re looking at Pixar’s history, you’d notice that in most of its films the characters who aren’t central to the narrative are usually pretty one-dimensional. It’s not as if this is something being done JUST to boys JUST in this film. Maybe you were so satisfied with the abundance of male role models before, you never really noticed that there is a huge quality gap when it comes to developing secondary and tertiary characters. This is true of most movies, btw, especially kids movies. They use stereotypical, one-dimensional stock characters in the background, usually for comic relief, because it’s easier than making every single character someone worth thinking about for longer than they are on screen. After all, those characters aren’t the point. So if three female characters are central to the narrative, and everyone else isn’t, then guess who’s going to be relegated to cardboard cut out status? This is something you notice when you’re a girl watching movies and wondering, “Where are all the ladies?” Very rarely is there much investment in developing anyone other than a few high-level characters.
You’re totally right. Brave is also flawed for having no positive male role models for girls. No matter how snarky the rest of your comment is, this is actually dead on. If overlooking this point in my original observation makes me sexist in some way, then I probably have to own it, because this didn’t occur to me.
No, the complaint was always about how shallow the men were. It was unrelated to Merida. As noted in other comments, Merida is a role model for boys.
Curses! *mustache twirl*
I remember spending most of my childhood sitting through hours of shows and movies with at best a single female character because they were the only things that were on and you’re pissed because one children’s movie doesn’t cater so much to the male demographic?
Ugh, I mean… I used to be ecstatic when I found a show that even treated female characters like people rather than fanservice or a trophy for the male hero.
And you’re bothered because the male characters in this what… 90 minute movie, around that well developed?
This is all true. And while it offers an explanation for the thin-ness of the male characters, I don’t know that the explanation is something different from “laziness”, and having the explanation in hand doesn’t make it any less true that there are no male role models in Brave. That is, having an explanation in hand doesn’t absolve the filmmakers of their decisions about these characters. As I say above, the observation that there are no male role models in Brave is a criticism if you accept some values about media and film. If you don’t accept those values, it is *still *an observation about the film, even if it isn’t a critical one.
I know right? I should definitely only offer critical observations when something is the worst.
I was initially inclined to disagree with you, but it turns out I don’t. I get what you’re saying. Why does a movie have to be one or the other, anyway? Why can’t there be a strong male and a strong female example in every movie? Nobody’s saying boys can’t learn from female role models and vice-versa, but it sure would be cool to have a little balance in the world instead of trying to make up for one extreme by going to the other.
How dare you agree with me!
:}
Seems like a lot of work for $3.00.
Work harder, not smarter.
So what are the values that I’m not getting? I get that you want there to be male role models in the movie. You’ve said that repeatedly. Is this something you think should be part of EVERY movie, especially if it’s one geared toward children? That there should be role models of both genders for children to identify with? And if so, if we’re talking about Pixar’s history, why don’t you seem to be upset, like at all, about the fact that their previous 12 films have little to no female role models at all?
My problem with this article is the main statement. “There are no male role models in Brave.” My answer to this is so what. Our cultural has centered around the male hero for so long I have no sympathy for this argument. If boys want a positive role model they can watch the 16 Pixar films out of 17 that have male leads.
Oh, DUDE. I’m rolling my eyes at you so hard I’m flipping over.
Now, this is a weird sort of ad hominem. Either the fact that the movie lacks male role models is important to you, or it isn’t, and it doesn’t matter if the person telling you that it lacks male role models has written previously about role models in other films. There is a fact of the matter, and now you know the fact of the matter, and you can decide if it is a flaw in the film or not. I think it is a flaw in the film, not because every kids’ movie needs to have a good male role model for boys, but because a * perfect* kids’ movie probably does. Brave is not a perfect kids’ movie. Why? Well, at the very least, because it lacks good male role models for boys. There are other criticisms (Deadspin gave it a C, mostly for plot reasons), but if on the scale of “Terrible” to “Perfect” kids’ movies one of your criteria is “has good male role models for boys” then their lack here will be a flaw in the film, for you. If that is not one of your criteria for evaluating a kids’ movie, then it won’t be a flaw and the film still has a shot at being perfect for you. Finding Nemo was not a perfect kids’ movie. Why? Because, at the least, it lacked a good role model for girls. (None of this is to say that boys can’t identify with female characters, or girls with male characters, but I think it’s a little silly to ignore how strongly boys and girls DO identify with male and female characters, and to pretend that it doesn’t matter at all as long as there are good role models, full stop.) I didn’t write about Finding Nemo because I didn’t have a blog when it came out and I just don’t think about it much now. I saw Brave under special circumstances, and it is a hyped movie, and I’ve seen it twice in the last week, so it’s on my mind.
As it happens, I have written about role models before, and I even provided
handy links within the post itself to a couple of those writings. One is
about The Little Mermaid, and the other about the Disney princes. Role
models in children’s films, male and female, are important to me.
“So what?” is indeed a powerful reply.
Ok.
You should have led with that. :)
No. The post says what it says, no matter what other posts also say.
Besides, if I had led with that I probably wouldn’t have $3.
Thanks for the smiley.
:}
I don’t know why this comment is getting so many down votes. She was the first person to say so. It was important. Does it sound sarcastic or something?
I guess it is too much to ask of the kids entertainment industry. I wish more movies contained good or even neutral role models for both genders.
So…you’re annoyed that one movie out of thousands doesn’t have “good role models for boys”? Oh dear. Whatever will they do. It’s not like they could go and watch nearly any other movie ever made and have the men be the powerful ones. Nope.
You’ve convinced me.
Why does it matter that there are no male role models for boys? There are MILLIONS of male role models for boys elsewhere. every media format provides hundreds of male role models on their own. Why can’t boys enjoy a movie that instead presents women as role models? Why does every movie, book,or television show have to have a male role model in order for it to be “for boys”?
That sound you heard was the point flying over your head.
Nope.
Yes. I didn’t say otherwise.
Alas.
I’m curious if you would use the same logic in reverse. Would you take a movie with a positive, developed male role model and one-dimensional female characters and say that it is not beneficial for girls to see?
Okay, at first I was annoyed upon reading that you think that this movie Brave (in your privilege, which you got to see well before the rest of us), you had the annoying note that no male-role models immediately was negative.
I have a seven year old son who is greatly looking forward to the movie, not because of any male character, but because Merida is an amazing archer. That’s his reason. It’s the same reason he liked the character ‘Hawkeye’ in the movie “The Avengers”. Why does he need a male-role model to steal the screen time away from the main character?
Here’s what boy’s can take away from this movie: Girls are just as cool as boys. They’re just as eager for adventure, and they don’t like being shoe-horned into the happily-ever after of getting married to the leading man and having his children. How is that even possibly not a wonderful thing for boys to see?
Now, this is the only time I’m coming here, because I’ve already spent enough energy on this subject, and I’ve only one further thing to say:
Your ‘edit’ is not only grating to come across after reading the article, it’s also deeply offensive that you choose to announce the ONLY reason you wrote something controversial is to make a buck. That means you INTENTIONALLY provoked all the people here who are objecting to the wording of the original article for no other reason than to make money from the add service.
While that might have been your intention, do you know what I’m going to do now? I’m going to make a HUGE note on the Tumblr page I found this link through to NOT click the link I made the mistake of clicking, because you -think- you’re a clever, clever man, when in reality you’re just a sad writer who had to write something garish and grating in order to get attention.
It’s three bucks.
No, because that’s not the logic I used. It wasn’t about the movie not being beneficial (full stop). But yes, of course the parallel case is a flaw in a film just as this is.
“The actual criticism of the film is: There are no [male] role models for boys.”
Gasp! Now you know how it feels for girls 99% of the time with essentially every other film ever made!
Gasp!
I’m totally waiting for your next post which criticizes how almost every other kids movie isn’t for girls because it doesn’t present a strong female role model.
Well sure. I definitely have to comment about every flaw in everything if I’m going to comment about a single flaw in a single thing. Hold tight. It might take me a while. You sit there. I’ll let you know when I’ve finished.
[...] the usual lesbian agenda theory, and then the arguments that this movie is simply “not for boys”. The latter gripe is more complex and actually has supporting evidence – the males in this [...]