Food as a Disciplinary Tool
One of Erin’s teachers took her food away today.
The way the story was related, couched in concepts like “consequences”, “following through”, and “character building” sounded sensible and considerate (although I flinch whenever I hear “character building” said in any tone other than bombastic, satirical deprecation), and at home Emily and I have been giving our own lessons in following through with consequences, teaching Erin’s little neural network how to process conditionals.
But I am not okay with what happened today. I’m getting myself a little worked up about it, in fact, and it’s only become more offensive to me the farther away from the conversation I get.
I was told, in a daily roundup as I was retrieving Erin from school, that they were working on teaching consequences. The example the teacher pulled from today was that when Erin would not stop trying to nab her neighbour’s fruit the teacher packed up her lunch and put it away. I had an uneasy reaction at the time I was told, but as it’s settled in my head I’ve realized that I’m not just uneasy, yet unsure about it: I have no respect at all for that action.
Preemptively let me note that this is not about the teacher depriving Erin of nutrition. As far as I can tell she didn’t. Erin’s lunch containers were at levels consistent with her having eaten a normal amount for her (she’s usually a light eater at lunch), so I’m not upset that she was potentially starving my daughter.
Also, I’ve taken Erin’s food away plenty of times at home, so it’s not the thought of the teacher packing up her food that bothers me. I often threaten to take her food away if she’s not eating it, if she’s not paying attention to it. Usually this has the desired result of her paying attention and eating her food, though occasionally it reveals that she is just finished eating, and so I take the plate away.
But I’ve never, as far as I can recall, taken her food away as a consequence of her doing something other than obviously being done eating, being done with her food. That is what bothers me so much about what happened today.
Using food, the promise of food, the power over food, as a way to control my daughter’s behaviour is completely inappropriate. Firstly, because it isn’t their power to have: I make Erin’s lunch, I provide enough for her to eat, and to eat well. I don’t provide her lunch as a disciplinary tool. As her teachers they are there to see that Erin gets enough to eat on their watch, and that should be their only involvement with her food.
Secondly, I think that using the power to withhold food as a method of discipline is barbaric. I don’t mean that it’s abusive (although there are plenty of examples of genuinely abusive food withholding). I mean that it’s retrograde. It’s discipline through violent authority (the one with the physical power using it to withhold food) which is at odds with so many of the common moral maxims we’ve adopted in contemporary society that I can’t even fathom it.
Thirdly, and somewhat irrationally, I think that using food as a motivator increases the likelihood of a person having problems with food later. I say that I think this irrationally because I’ve never actually seen studies saying that food issues and eating disorders are related in any way to food being used in discipline. But I’ve also never seen a study saying that they aren’t linked. It’s irrational, but it’s also probably understandable that this is a worry I have.
No small part of the level to which I’m worked up about this is that I just feel guilty that my kids aren’t at home with me, that I have to take time during the week to work instead of just being home to raise them myself. But I’m also feeling very righteous right now.
It’s probably a good thing that I won’t be seeing the teachers until the middle of next week. I need to calm down about this a little before I speak to them.
51 comments
Last time I checked? Teachers have no right to take away food for a child who is at school for HOURS expending energy. I’d lay some smack down. (actually, I’d be a raging cow and staple the food pyramid to their foreheads…but I’m kind of extreme like that)
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I agree with your sentiment. Taking away food if they are done or seem to be done eating is one thing. If she was disrupting, then the teacher should have MOVED her to a different seat to finish lunch time.
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“I’ve never seen a study saying that they aren’t linked” is fallacious reasoning and you know it. Get ahold of yourself, man! You’re a philosopher!
That said, I have worked in a childcare center in my (different from yours) state and it is a licensing violation to tie food, sleep, or bathroom privileges to discipline even if a parent asks a caregiver to do so. I’d be pissed too.
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Backpacking Dad Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
Didn’t I say that it was irrational? I thought I was pretty upfront about that one.
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Are you going to consider the other child? How was that child feeling when Erin was taking his fruit? What sort of action did you expect the teacher should have taken? Group settings are difficult. Teachers must deal with things differently than we deal with them in the home environment.
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Backpacking Dad Reply:
October 9th, 2009 at 9:30 pm
Wow. Holy straw man, batman.
This isn’t about me trying to handcuff the teachers. I expect them to take appropriate disciplinary actions and to secure the welfare of every child in the class. This isn’t about me thinking “gosh, how unfair that they singled my daughter out!” I am perfectly okay with them moving her away, threatening her with a sticker shortage or any of a hundred other sensible, appropriate responses.
This response was not okay.
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I think your instincts are right with this: “I think that using food as a motivator increases the likelihood of a person having problems with food later.” We all know that food shouldn’t be used as a reward (unless you’re training a dog), so it makes complete sense that it certainly shouldn’t be used as punishment. Plus, going back to Psych 101, I’m pretty sure that positive reinforcement is much more powerful in directing behavior than punishment.
If a teacher did this to one of my kids, I’d be a raging mama bear. So, I think you’re entitled to be pissed.
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When i was a kid and causing way more havoc than that I was sat next to the teacher to have a closer eye kept on me. I’m pretty sure if someone had taken my food I would have bitten them and demanded my phone call since this was clearly prison (I watched too much law and order as a kid). I can’t believe that!
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[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by whymomdrinksrum and Jenny Wadley. Jenny Wadley said: RT @BackpackingDad: Do you use food to discipline your child? http://bit.ly/18JoM9 //Really well thought-out, excellent post. [...]
As someone who has had issues with food I doubt that taking food away as punishment (or giving it as a reward in a different situation) once or twice is going to give Erin food issues. (Yes, I know you said it was an irrational fear.) I think it is possible to have food issues if the giving and/or taking are constant over a long period of time.
That said I would be extremely livid if this happened to my child. I think the more appropriate response would have been to move Erin to another area away from the other child.
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Totally inappropriate. She should have been removed from the situation, but food should never be used as a disciplinary tool, IMO
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Holy craptastic! I would be livid!
The appropriate disciplinary action would have been to move Erin away from the other child, preferably closer to the teacher. Taking away her food as punishment is wildly inappropriate. You know that Erin had eaten a normal amount, but how could the teacher be so sure? Was the teacher going to discipline Erin again if Erin later complained that she was hungry?
So NOT cool.
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I’m afraid you are going to have to get a grip… this is only the beginning of a long road of your child being disciplined by teachers. I have to believe that your daughter was warned multiple times that there would be a consequence to her behavior. Strict follow-thru is what keeps these kids from having major behavior problems in the future. You need to remember that the teacher is handling a totally different situation with a group of children then you do at home with only her present.
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Backpacking Dad Reply:
October 10th, 2009 at 4:30 am
I’m afraid you haven’t read very carefully if you think that this post was about me losing it over teachers disciplining my daughter.
This is about her choice to use food as a disciplinary tool (hence the title of the entire post). There are many ways teachers can discipline children in a group setting that have nothing to do with food and I have no problem whatsoever with sensible disciplining. I encourage it. (Did you even see the part where I say that my wife and I are working on consequences and following through at home? No? Oh, you wanted to get straight to the misreading and the doling out of pearls like “get a grip”. Nice.)
But thanks for stopping by.
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EK Reply:
October 10th, 2009 at 4:20 pm
yep, saw the part about you and your wife and your handling of situations at home, did you even bother to comprehend my comment that it is a totally different situation when you have a group of children as opposed to working with one child?
your concern about food being the motivator or de-motivator is interesting… consider the concept that her un-desireable behavior centered around food that day… there may be a link
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EK Reply:
October 10th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
hmmm…. considering the responses of the other readers, it looks like you’ll be speaking to the teachers, and rightfully so. Just think it’s gonna be a long road for you and Erin if you get this anxious when these situations happen.
Doesn’t make it right, just my opinion.
Backpacking Dad Reply:
October 10th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Your comments are so baffling that they are making me feel stupid. If I understand you correctly, you think that the fact that the teachers are dealing with a group gives them license to use completely inappropriate disciplinary techniques. That’s not only a poor thing to believe, but a dangerous one, since it licenses all kinds of even more inappropriate disciplinary techniques just because, gosh, the teachers have to deal with more than one kid. Modern teaching is all about knowing which techniques work in groups, and which are appropriate. You couldn’t be more wrong that I should be taking the group situation into account here. My reaction isn’t about discipline. It’s about discipline using food. Specifically. Period. That ought to have been clear from all kinds of hints in the post, but you just aren’t getting it.
You also make the rather insane claim that maybe there is a link between my daughter grabbing at her neighbour’s fruit and the fact that we DON’T use food in our discipline at home. Note, please, that I never said in the post that we don’t discipline her ABOUT food. The only thing I can think of to make sense of your comment is that you think I mean that we don’t discipline her about food, and that’s just a reading comprehension failure.
As for how worked up I’ve gotten over this, gee, you’re totally right: I was worked up enough to write a blog post about it, work out my thoughts on food being used in discipline, and consider what I was going to say to the teachers when we spoke about the issue later. What a radical, over the top reaction! Thank god for your wisdom.
And really, it took you reading through the comments to see that I was going to talk to the teachers? You gleaned no hint of that intention from the very end of the post itself?
It’s been a long day, and I’m not feeling very nice about people failing to read and understand a post before offering up “just their opinion.” If there are things in the post that I failed to make clear then that’s on me. But I doubt that’s the case here, since MOST of the people reading it understood it perfectly well.
I’m with you on every single point, with the lone exception of calling the discipline (punishment?) violent authority. It’s manipulative, to be sure, but I’m not so sure I’d go so far to call it violent. I think I can understand the direction the teacher was trying to take, in the sense that E was “doing something wrong” by trying to take another child’s food, and ergo she should be punished by having hers taken as a result.
It’s not right, but in the heat of the moment, it would seem logical.
However, I completely agree that she could have been punished in any number of different ways. How difficult would it have been for the teacher to simply separate the two? I can’t tell you how many times my two youngest daughters (3 & 4) argue over food, and try to take it, simply because they’re convinced it was theirs. I’ve been there often enough to know that when it comes to food, and who it belongs to, there’s no arguing with toddler logic. Without having actually been there, I’m more inclined to think that was the case than that E was being purposely malicious.
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Backpacking Dad Reply:
October 10th, 2009 at 5:41 pm
It’s violent in the way that all exercises of physical authority are violent. I don’t mean that it was like getting punched. But I do mean that it is of a type with techniques that we’ve done away with because they rely on physical power.
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@karmannguy Reply:
October 10th, 2009 at 6:16 pm
Okay, explained like that, that makes a lot more sense. Thanks for clarifying.
I’m behind you 100%… I think you’re completely justified in your indignation.
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You have every right to be upset about this one. I was a competitive swimmer and my daughter was a gymnast. I have witnessed my fair share of eating disorders. My personality has tendancies and I am adament about NEVER, EVER tying discipline with food. EVER! It doesn’t matter that your child seemed finished with eating. And her eating or not eating wasn’t the problem. The problem was with her respecting another child’s boundries. THAT is the issue that should have been addressed. This teacher was way off base. I hope you’ve considered talking to her and her department head…after you’ve cooled down, of course!
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Wow.
I would be furious. There are so many ways your daughter could have been disciplined, and a preschool teacher should be prepared for this type of situation. Is this the same teacher who has told your daughter she was going to staple her mouth shut?
To help allay your fears: my parents never used food as a motivator and I had (ok, have) serious issues with food. So if I’m any kind of normal, I don’t think it has anything to do with how food is ‘used’ when you’re a child.
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Backpacking Dad Reply:
October 10th, 2009 at 6:12 pm
Wait, what? Staple her mouth shut? I don’t think that was my blog :}
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psumommy Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Ha, sorry…no, it wasn’t you. And I didn’t remember until I was explaining the whole thing to my husband. Ugh. Dern kids stoled mah brainz!
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I would be furious, and I’d probably bitch smack them into next Tuesday. I definitely wouldn’t be able to handle it as you did and say nothing until next time! Obviously you are a bit more level headed.
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I think you’re right to feel uncomfortable about it, and perfectly within your rights as a parent-who PAYS for their service- to not want this method used for your child. I haven’t read the other commenters but here’s my 2 cents: I would ask that in the future, if she is misbehaving at lunch that she be moved to a table/area away from the rest of the children. She’s disciplined (physically removed from the situation) but it is unrelated to the actual food. Make sure to update us after you talk to them, please!
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I agree with Headless Mom. I think (as most teachers do) that it’s important for parents and teachrs to have conversations about discipline. I don’t think I’d get too worked up over it though (unless my concerns were not heard or addressed). I think it’s important to remember that you’re both working in the best interests of your child. The teacher may not have thought about it in the same way as you are, and you bringing it to her attention will help her sort through the “logical consequences” she’s working on.
I have to say, my perspective as a teacher has changed a lot since becoming a parent. I’d do certain things differently now than I would have before. But that’s the kind of modification that comes from seeing things from another perspective. I don’t know your teacher’s situation, but I’d guess that she has good intentions and just hasn’t thought of it that way. I think it’s great that you’re waiting until you are calm to address this issue.
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Amen.
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I am in complete agreement with you, BPDad. Using food for discipline is a bad path to tread down (and, apparently, not legal or counter to licensing practices?). From your description, it sounds like they treated the situation exactly the same way they would have if “food” were swapped for “toys.” If this had been a toy situation, the consequences would make a lot of sense. They probably shouldn’t be so clueless, but I do think it’s cluelessness.
This is why I think it’s good to go through your outrage and come out the other side, then sit down with the teacher/s and talk with them about not taking away food, bathroom privileges, or naps as discipline, even if the offenses are somehow related to those activities.
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Thing about this that would p*ss me right off would be that that tactic makes zero sense. By their actions the teachers only muddied the waters with an illogical consequence. The teachers missed the boat by a wide margin. You MUST connect the consequences with the ‘crime’. In this case her ‘crime’ was not engaging with others at lunch in an appropriate manner. Therefore a logical, rational consequence would be for her to have to move spots. That sort of consequence (you can sit near person x properly you can not sit with them at all) makes a heck of a lot more sense then the totally random act of taking food away. There is no connection there. They may as well have taken her favorite toy away. Part A does not lead to Part B. Now if she was throwing food, a logical consequence just might be “We are going to put your lunch away until you are ready to eat it in a way that follows our rules. Let me know when you are ready to try eating lunch again.” Sure its always easier to just take something away then to find a more constructive and rational way to guide a child’s behaviour. But as a teacher it is that adults responsibility to use that moment as a teachable one. To figure out the best way to use that mistake as a moment the child can learn from. The only thing she learned is that some times teachers take food away. With young children you can not ever take any sort of ambiguity as understood. Consequences must be black, white and above all logical, reasonable and if at all possible natural and understood before the infraction takes place.
I would for sure be feeling unsettled if that story had been about my daughter.
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Erin W. Reply:
October 10th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Thank you for saying this! Almost exactly what I was going to say in that the punishment didn’t fit the crime. Erin was having trouble in an interpersonal situation and so she got her food taken away? I don’t see how that would stop her from the original behavior, trying to take her neighbor’s food. If anything I think it would only strengthen the idea. “Hmm. I was trying to take Stephanie’s fruit and my food got taken away. If I want to get full I’m gonna have to try even harder to get that fruit!” – I realize that Erin was probably already full, but I’m just saying this as an example.
I hope that her teacher will learn something from your conversation. What a mess.
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I work in early childhood education, and this method of disipline is simply not okay. A “natural consequence” is being cold when you refuse to put on your coat. Hopefully, the teacher just had a bad moment, or after you discuss it with her, she will learn from this experience. You may need to talk to her supervisor about how teachers use “positive guidance” at their center.
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I apologize if I’m repeating anyone else’s thoughts. I really felt the need to say this:
Food was both a goad and a reward in my childhood. I am now an over-eater, overweight, a comfort eater, a binge eater,and have issues with people so much as taking a fry off my plate or a crouton or carrot from my salad without asking and waiting for permission. I have great difficulty eating in front of others, especially people I do not know, and find things like buffets, parties, and wedding-style group dining to be horrible and not worth the effort – I would rather just not eat.
When I didn’t perform as the woman who raised me thought I should, I was denied food. I learned to hoard and eat secretively, to hide the evidence and lie about it. When I did well and she was pleased, I was rewarded with sweets; chocolate is one of my principle opiates – if I eat enough of it, I will actually become numb, to the point of falling deeply to sleep (in part because of the sugar and in part because of the psychological response).
My issues are the result of prolonged abuse by a person of power in my childhood, not a single incident, and may not be entirely due to her actions…but I am certain her behavior fostered the feelings, nurtured them, helped them to grow into the thorny vines I wrestle with today.
Removing your little sprite from the table would have been more appropriate, perhaps placing her far enough from the other child that she could not reach, but with her own lunch still available should she want it.
I’ve been a pre-school teacher. It’s a kind of hell, when the kids are having one of those days…they try your patience beyond reason or the ability to think clearly…that’s why we have policies and procedures in place to fall back on. I don’t think your ire is misplaced. I think it’s fair to ask the school director what the appropriate response to Erin’s behavior would have been, let them know that taking her meal away (even if she seems done) is not OK with you, and offer alternatives more in line with school policy and your own family discipline.
Ok, so I’ll shut up now.
Shade and Sweetwater,
K
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It sounds to me like you, as a father, have a healthy perspective on this situation. As you have correctly thought, it isn’t appropriate practice in early childhood education for a teacher to use food as a means to discipline a young child. The giving or taking away of food should not be used to bribe, threaten, discipline, or manipulate a student in the learning environment. If you haven’t gently mentioned your concern to your child’s teacher, be sure and do so. Teachers often learn to be more aware and reflective of their decisions or management of issues in the classroom when parents kindly share their concerns with them.
As for the other child, I doubt this child was deeply hurt over the whole thing. Perhaps the next time your daughter brings her lunch you can pack her some fruit and an extra baggie to share with others
Thanks for being a concerned parent and keeping a reasonable perspective.
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By the way – please don’t say my comment is ’stupid’ – I don’t want to land on your twitter page
(just kidding here).
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100% behind you. It’s completely inappropriate as a way to teach a child that age, and I share your concern that making food a battleground help creates a mental/emotional climate that would be supportive of eating issues.
And I’m sorry you feel bad. life has compromises, and I think you’re doing fine.
(And I don’t actually think most people are doing fine.)
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I think you have every right to be angry. That’s just… weird. I understand that they need to discipline, but I think that using food as a tool for that is just a bad idea. It sends a mixed message to a kid. Food should not be a weapon or a tool for punishment.
Good luck with this one…!
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I worry about putting that type of emphasis on food. I could never use food as a means of reward/punishment especially when eating disorders are such a concern with young people.
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Man, that’s messed up. Why didn’t the teacher just make her finish her lunch somewhere else away from the other little kid? I don’t think taking her lunch away was the right action.
You have every right to discuss this with the teacher. Good luck, keep us posted.
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I guess another comment telling you the same thing can’t really hurt, right?
Being a teacher seems like the hardest job in the world, because it’s not just dealing with dozens of students, but with angry demanding parents. Saying that, I believe you have every right to be upset and I believe the teacher made a mistake and that you should confront her about it. Good you’re taking the time to do that, though.
Really, you’re right about everything, including in your response to Stacylt (expressing concern about the teacher’s actions means you don’t care about the other girl?).
You’re not right about feeling guilty, though.
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I agree with you but that being said, I can see how someone would make the choice to take away her food in a misguided attempt at empathy
“If you don’t stop trying to take your neighbor’s food your food is going to be taken away.”
If I understood what you wrote correctly, then this punishment does in fact “fit the crime” – again still not agreeing with the choice but simply pointing out someone’s ability to make the connection.
The situation was that one child was trying to take away another child’s food. Instead of choosing to teach empathy about the stealing of food through taking away her food, the better choice, in my opinion, would have been to take the opportunity to teach about being respectful to others.
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I agree completely with you being angry about this, for the reasons that you stated. The consequences need to suit the action. If she were throwing food around the room, then remove it, as consequence, NOT as punishment. I think there’s a huge difference between the two.
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Food nabbing happens at my house all the time because I have twins the same age as Erin, but I’ve never taken away food because of it, and I’m not sure I would have thought to even do such a thing. I basically tell them to keep their hands in their own plates, and that’s it. I guess the teacher was showing Erin what it feels like for someone to take your food. And with lots of kids to police, he/she may have had to do it in order to keep it from continuing. I think I would have just put her at a table by herself rather than take her food away, though.
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Whatever happened to time outs? I agree completely about the whole taking food away can cause food issues later on life. I would have a real issue with this.
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I’m in total agreement with you on this. I would be very upset about using food as discipline, and I do think the teacher probably is just clueless. Definitely talk to her and open her eyes. Food should never be used in this way! It’s too easy for people (and girls especially) to develop issues with food even without moments like this to reinforce it.
I also think this is not at all an example “natural consequence.” As a person above said, natural consequence is when the kid gets cold because she won’t put on a coat. This reminds me of how some people will spank or hit their child to teach them not to hit/discipline them for hitting. IMO, what that shows is that that those in power can do it, but you aren’t allowed to do it. Taking something from her because she took someone else’s (food/toy/whatever) can backfire, teaching resentment, giving certain messages about authority/power and showing that it is something that is okay to do if you are stronger/bigger/have the power.
Hmm. I hope I’m making sense. I’m still deep into sleep deprivation of new baby and sick 2.5 yo. It’s tough to try and be deep and thoughtful on so little sleep.
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Wow, you kinda got really hammered by people on this post.
I would be super-duper pissed if a caregiver punished my kid by removing food. I don’t care what she was doing – that is a lazy (uhh, and destructive!) way to teach a child.
Paid caregivers are there to re-direct – NOT DISCIPLINE!!!
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deej Reply:
October 12th, 2009 at 6:01 pm
Oh, btw – I’m all kinds of smart with my grammar too! *smiles*
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I didn’t get to read all the comments,but it’s food. I can totally see how nipping other’s food would easily happen in a classroom setting. I’m not sure how you bring food to the table at your house or during other eating/social events but here it comes on a platter and the people take their bit? My boys started K doing this, they had to be reminded that they had their own food and the other kids had their own food. It’s a pretty easy concept to teach if you have patience enough to talk to the kids.
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First time commenter – but I’m very interested to hear how your next conversation goes with the school about this. Hope you post a follow up!
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While not being an expert, I do think that eating disorders are about control, and using food as a means of control. So I agree with your discomfort of using food as a punishment.
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I am a mother of 2 little kids…..This year my son is in 1st grade and was recently diagnosed with A.D.D… Joey has not been put on medication yet but will be at the end of the month… now he is havinfg a very hard time in school as far as finishing his work…so the last few days he has been come home starving so i asked him why? maybe he need a heavier lunch or a better breakfast….. NO MY SON EATS LUNCH AT 10:30 IN THE MORNING AND HIS TEACHER HAS BEEN TAKING HIS SNACK AWAY BECAUSE HES NOT FINISHING HIS WORK……SNACK IS AT THE END OF THE DAY AROUND 1:30…. am i crazy or over reacting????
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